Queer Leadership in 2025
By Tabitha Gilbert (DR HQ), Dr. Matt Yoxall & Lara King (DR trainers)
Pride Month is here, and it brings a variety of feelings in 2025. Whilst there is always room to celebrate, we also recognise that this past year has been hugely challenging for Queer people around the world – including our clients, our partners, and our team. We sat down with Lara King and Dr. Matt Yoxall to discuss what Queer leadership feels like in 2025 – and what vulnerability and authenticity mean in a world where the rights of LGBTQ people are under ever greater scrutiny.
DR: Matt, Lara, thank you so much for chatting with us. You both have long careers in the world of performing arts and have been trainers with DR for many years. We’ve chosen to discuss Queer leadership today. Can we reflect on what things were like when you were starting out in your careers?
Matt: I went to theatre school in London back in the mid-nineties. The social and cultural space was starting to open up for the Queer community then. We were just emerging from the earlier impacts of the HIV/AIDS crisis. Politically, things began to shift, and it felt like a gentler time was coming... a kinder time. We were having conversations around the active inclusion of Queer people and other minority groups, and we were starting to bring our authentic selves to work more. That being said, Clause 28 was still in force in the UK which affected Queer people entering teaching positions (Clause 28 was a UK law that prohibited the "promotion of homosexuality" by local authorities, effectively banning support, or even visibility of, LGBTQ people and LGBTQ content in schools). I had to navigate that at the outset of my career, while I was working on Theatre-in-Education programmes. But we pushed against it in many ways.
DR: Do you think that these factors affected the representation of LGBTQ leaders in the workplace?
Matt: Yes, there were still not many examples of openly Queer people in leadership positions in my everyday life. Queer leadership really meant the people leading the movement - like Angela Mason from Stonewall. She was in the media a lot at the time, which was a big deal.
Lara: The closet was a crowded place back then, and unsurprisingly so. There was still very much a "don't ask, don't tell” vibe going on. Of course, there were people who we all recognised as Queer – some of them were out, and some of them were not. But we knew about them because they came from our world: the world of entertainment, music, and theatre. In many ways, that move towards visibility of LGBTQ people in the public eye was driven by people in the arts.
Matt: Lara is right, the arts were key. The theatre company, Gay Sweatshop (who celebrated their 50th anniversary this year), were still producing work. The play Bent was also still influential. Playwright Jonathan Harvey was up and coming, and soon after Russell T Davies wrote Queer as Folk. These people – activists and theatre-makers – were breaking ground. They got knocked back and knocked down, but they kept getting up and out there.
Lara: They were so bold in the face of adversity. They literally put their lives on the line. Early on in my career, it was rarely a case of “they’re brilliant leaders in their field and they happen to be Queer". Now, I think we’ve reached that point where we can say that. That’s a huge win for our community and it was won by those who were visible, who were brave. A business leader’s Queer identity can be incidental now – in a positive way.
DR: That question of disclosure is fascinating because in our work, we often talk about disclosure as a storytelling tool. Work around emotional disclosure often leads to stories from childhood, or a turning point story. Do you think disclosure means something different if we're talking to LGBTQ participants?
Lara: In my view, it does. In the past, we have delivered programmes specifically aimed at the LGBTQ+ community and its allies. I was so relieved and thankful when we began delivering those programmes. The disclosure thing makes me think. I can give you an example involving 'speak for a minute’ (a classic DR exercise in which participants tell a short personal story). If I'm telling a turning point story for a big accountancy firm, I'm not likely to tell my ‘coming out’ story. But on these specific programmes, we had an open playing field. I could tell whatever story I chose to tell... and it was important that I did, because in my disclosure, I encouraged participants to disclose. It sends tingles up my spine even now, because their stories were incredible. They were so powerful, so beautiful, and so empowering for everybody else to experience. We had people breaking down, and we had people who were celebrating, saying: “wow, I've never been able to say this before”. The level of disclosure that we got on those programmes was phenomenal, because the space was given to them. That's the first time as a trainer that I've been able to be my 100% authentic self and not censor anything.
Matt: In a coaching session, we’re inviting people to be more of themselves, to be their true, authentic selves. We've talked through some LGBTQ history, and we know that there are situations which threaten us and prevent us from being able to show up with high confidence. We don't always know to what degree we'll be accepted. When I go into a training room as a gay person, I still wonder how much of my authentic self I can be – and if it will be safe for me to do so. During one workshop, I was demonstrating a scale of authority (in relation to internal and external confidence). For my “number nine” - the high end of the scale - I did an impromptu high kick! It was unexpected and bold, but it felt appropriate for that group. It was also fun. I did it because I felt safe to do it, and in part because Lara was there with me. The point is, to me, it was a high-confidence behaviour. That's a simple example which shows the overlap between our work and the way we show up in the room as trainers – expressing who we actually are.
Lara: Absolutely. Outside of that safe space, there's always a question of whether we are toning ourselves down. Does everybody tone stuff down, because we want to fit the mould of professionalism? Maybe. But that moment when Matt skipped across the room in Tokyo... he allowed himself to be authentic, and it felt right in that moment, and it created such joy in the room. That's what I feel we are doing as leaders and as openly Queer people. In accepting spaces, people are more generous with themselves, and we all gain something.
Matt: On the topic of safe spaces and disclosure – I once worked on an EDI programme which was established by a really fantastic client team, led by a neurodiverse gay man and a Black British woman. We knew we’d be working with participants from different backgrounds and encouraging them to bring their whole selves to work. The client leads encouraged us to disclose as part of the programme, to demonstrate how to relationship-build and create trust. We often ask participants to think about their ‘superpowers’ in terms of communication, presence and impact. In that moment, on that programme, I was told my superpower was to be gay and be me. I can't overstate how unusual, and how special, that was.
DR: What do you think about when you hear the term Queer leadership? What kind of leadership qualities do you try and embody in the training room?
Lara: Our experience shapes us as trainers. All of us bring expertise from the world of performance, but as Queer members of the team, Matt and I have been through things which give us a different perspective. That affects how we embody leadership qualities in the room. For instance, I can feel vulnerable as a lesbian coaching on a women's leadership programme. You can't help but go back to those school days when you were bullied for who you are. So, when I'm in a room full of powerful businesswomen, I make the choice to show up with my head high. I know what it’s like to feel excluded and belittled, and that perspective is valuable in many of the programmes we run, like women’s leadership. And as Matt mentioned, there’s strength in numbers. His bravery in showing up as himself in the training room gives me permission to do the same. It takes guts! But I have to model powerful leadership in order to encourage participants to do the same.
Matt: Globally, many businesses are sunsetting their EDI initiatives, including programmes for Queer employees. When that type of work gets cancelled, I do feel more pressed to show up as a leader, and to represent. We're under the crunch, but we have to practise what we preach. What I need to do is breathe. I need to get ground beneath my feet, and I need to embody and exhibit high-confidence. I will be exactly who I am in the world, because if I don't do that, I am not being my true, authentic self. The message I would like to communicate is: we'll do that. Please make it possible for us to do that. Whatever environment or industry you’re in, please be part of making it possible for us to model versions of leadership that are authentic. Without that, we are going backwards, not forwards.
DR: Let's turn to the future. We have a whole new generation of people entering the workforce. At the same time, we are living in politically fragmented times with increasing pressure on LGBTQ people and other minority groups. How do you think the new workforce will reshape definitions of professionalism? And how do you think company culture will change, depending on how organisations respond to political pressure to deprioritise EDI?
Lara: If businesses sunset their EDI initiatives, we are going to go back in time with regard to leadership roles. We are on the precipice of it changing – of embodying the fact that anybody can be a leader. We are no longer basing "business leader" on a white man in a suit, with a briefcase and a bowler hat! For the last twelve to fifteen years working with Dramatic Resources, I've been teaching people: “You can do this. You can be a leader, whoever you are, and wherever you’ve come from.” The idea that these programmes are shutting down is so depressing. What message is that sending? Not just to the Queer people in an organisation, since they can no longer do those programmes and develop as leaders in an inclusive space, but to the people that are learning from Queer managers, directors, heads of department? My real fear about the future is that we are going to have to start fighting for our rights all over again – and we have fought already. In my circle, I hear young women in their twenties and thirties saying, "thank you for what you did for us." And I look back and thank the people before me. Endless activism, campaigning and effort have paved the way for me to be as fortunate and as grateful as I am, and it's my job to continue paving that path. But it feels like there’s a big road sign up saying "Work is paused." We need to remember that this work is ongoing. It's continuous. We were getting somewhere! Don't stop us now.
Matt: Social change is not linear. It can look very positive, but it can also look like a big backwards step. You see it play out in your own lifetime, and in different parts of the world. I worked for many years with people of the different ethnic groups from Myanmar. When Aung San Suu Kyi was released from house arrest, there was a democratic election, the borders opened up, and young people had access to the internet for the first time. Myanmar became a participating part of South and Southeast Asia again – this big, diverse region. I worked inside the country for about ten years and formed a very close bond with a group of theatre-makers. I’ve known them for nearly twenty years now, and they are my biggest collective of ‘straight boyfriends’ in the whole world. They did two really powerful things for me – they loved me, and they collaborated with me... on multiple major projects! Now, the military government is back in power, and I am unable to return and make theatre with them. When you think about that, and about what Lara has just said, it’s clear that the fight for acceptance and inclusion is not just about Queer people, or Queer issues. This affects everyone.
DR: Do you have any final thoughts to share with us?
Lara: I would like to say that Queer leadership looks the same as any other leadership. There are Queer leaders who are brilliant, vibrant, inspirational and groundbreaking – and there are also Queer leaders who sometimes get it wrong. The thing is, as with many aspects of achievement in the LGBTQ community, and sadly most other minority groups, we often have to be extra distinguished and amazing – more so than everyone else – before we are celebrated. I still long for the day where there is no need for anyone to ‘come out’ as anything... when a person’s Queer identity is accepted, and is simply part of who they are. In the future, it would be nice to think that Queer leaders can be dedicated, motivated, and committed in their careers, with the freedom to embrace and express their true selves. I hope that we all get the chance to be brilliant leaders who just so happen to be Queer.
Matt: I can share a story. An old boss of mine was the first person to ‘go de facto’ in Australia with his British partner (being able to legally bring him, as a partner, to live together in the country). He said something to me that I will never forget: “keep your placards under your bed”. He grew up in a time when protest and the unions were crucial in leveraging a political position. What he meant was, we always need to be ready. When the right to just be yourself in public is taken away from you – what are you going to do? That’s where we’re at. We are all being asked this, whether it's through thinking about trans rights, immigration, or wars in Europe and the Middle East. The question is: what do you want leadership to look like in the world? It’s time to get clear about the messages you want to give. In other words... get your placards out from under your bed.
We were honoured to have had the chance to discuss Queer leadership with Lara and Matt during Pride Month. Thank you, both, for tackling these complex issues with such bravery and vulnerability.
Wherever you are, whoever you are – DR wishes you a safe and joyful Pride.